Level 50 Tentacruel compared to Level 40 Tentacruel: Time save: Pelliper: 1s Bibarel: 3.5s Azumarill: 4s Golduck: 5.5s Wake: 6s | 7.25 - miss. Miss = 5s * 0.2 / 0.8 = 1.25 Saturn: 1s | Assumes 1/2, 15/16 Miss = 4.5s * 3 = 3.375 Fog 1: 8s Fog 2: 9.5s Fog 3: 8s Choice Specs movement: 5.7 Cyrus: 16s | Assumes vs 31 IV, L43 on Golbat Verity singles: 6s Mars: 3.5s | Assumes all turns are 5.6 @ prev ~5/8, 3/4 Barry 4: 5.8s | Assumes 1/2 diff, and 80% Grasswhistle Tropius: 10s Seaking: 9.6s Candice: 6s | X Spec turn is 13.3 if WH (Only happens if ava T1 which is 2.5 quicker) So Assuming 50/50s Volkner: 12s | 18 (17.2) or 9.6 (8.8) - Assumes 90% TW (16.92) Mantine: 7s Torterra: 11.2s | 6.8 or 20, assumes 1/3 LS Machamp: 2s | Assumes 7/16 diff Dusknoir: 1.5s | Assumes 5/16 diff Barry 5: 4.8s | Assumes 13/16 diff Lucian: 3.1s | Avoids heal vs Espeon if LS (15.5) - assumes 20% Cynthia: 9.5s | Assumes 3.5 for heal, about 25% Battles = 160.2s 2 fewer moves (inc lvl up): 15.8s 1 fewer level ups: 3.6s 1 less PP item: 10s | Get 5.2 + Use 4.8 No hotel heal: 7.5s 1 fewer rare candies: 13s | Get 8.8 + Use 4.2 Menu = 49.9s Sandgem detour: 48s | From oreburgh to oreburgh. Includes teleport, but not s+q Save & quit / manip: ~25s | This is an estimate, since save times vary depending on how much it has to save Sandgem: 73s Total: 283.1s --- Time loss: R221 detour: 23s | Does not include Rock Smash on backtrack, nor a S+Q (as the assumption is it uses the same s+q as abigail) Killing monferno: 22s | Average. Wingull has lots of possibilities, but with higher HP e.g. Gyara w/ 47hp, Bite -> Brine is 23 Getting X Att for Wake: 3.5s Monferno fights: Nosepass: 6s Bronzor: 11.1s 2 more level ups (this is 25 and 28, include 26 and 27 in below fights): 7.1s Total before last 2: 72.7 Fantina: ? Barry 3: ? So 283.1 - 72.7 = 210.4s for monferno to get through Fantina and Barry 3 compared to Tenta. Remember the Tenta calcs will include killing both slaves, whereas Monferno will only kill one (Abra on Barry 3, will be part of the strat). --- Unincluded things: Getting the X Att. Assuming L40 gets it, and L50 doesn't use it, would be another -5sec. Some menu useages aren't coupled together accurately. For example I think you save another open/close (2.6s) by using the rare candy with max repel on route 226, instead of after it separately Level 50 would make extended manip after Eterna city easier, since there's no tweaking before Solaceon, step counter can be consistent. So getting past the spinners, potentially not repelling, is easier/faster/more consistent. Technically, if the extended manip when passing the first spinner has a large pause before mt coronet (like my manip in Pearl glitchless), then getting the revive there would cost potentially 0 time, and therefore be worth it for Verity double (Usage is ~4, timesave is about 8.8 assuming no FO on Tenta, so say 3.5 total. Whereas picking up is usually 4 sec, so not worth) Tweak difficulty: The tweaks to L50 tenta are easier than the ones to L40. I struggle particularly with the first tweak to L40. Timings assume all first try. Chance to play risky on Bertha, skipping the X Spec on Whiscash. Would probably only do if required to PB, though. Extra healing. It's very likely you'll have to heal Monferno more (the 4 extra fights it takes is at least 1 extra heal, sometimes 2), however you end up healing Tentacruel less (take far less damage throughout). They about balance out, you probably use like 1.9 more roots on Monferno and 1.1 less on Tentacruel or something, but the ones on Tenta take more time, so time wise it's pretty close, but probably slightly longer healing Monferno. Really hard to calc though, so just assuming it's about even. -------------------------------------------------- Next Comparison ---------------------------------------------- Level 50 VS Level 40 & Level 50: Time save: Sandgem detour: 48s | From oreburgh to oreburgh. Includes teleport, but not s+q Save & quit / manip: ~25s | This is an estimate, since save times vary depending on how much it has to save Catching Tenta: ~46s [This is a slightly lower number than normal, because you wouldn't get a Pokedex entry on the second Tentacruel] Getting another Net Ball: 0.5s | Note: This assumes you just buy 2, e.g. at Floraroma. You probably don't have the money for this. Buying 1 in a vacuum is ~7.4s, unsure where the fastest option for another singular is at this stage. Lake Verity double: 2.8s | You'd be fighting with L50 + L40 instead of fighting as singles otherwise, which is slightly slower. Fighting twins: 37s 1 level up on L40: 3.6s Monfernos Cry entrance is slightly faster than Tentacruels: 0.9s | 0.3s x 3 (nosepass, bronzor, L50 catch) Pokemon switch menus: ~8.6s | 4s for L40 Tenta (double switch before teleport. Assumes Abra alive), and 4.6s for L50 Tenta (A double switch extra menu compared to single switch no extra) Depositing an extra poke before E4: 1.8s Total: 174.2 --- Time loss: Killing monferno: 22s Healing monferno before Fantina: 6s Monferno fights: Nosepass: 6s Bronzor: 11.1s 2 more level ups (this is 25 and 28, include 26 and 27 in below fights): 7.1s Total before last 2: 52.2 Fantina: ? Barry 3: ? So 174.2 - 52.2 = 122s for monferno to get through Fantina and Barry 3 compared to Tenta. Remember these Tenta calcs will NOT include killing the slaves, as you would just fight the twins --- Unincluded things: The option of L40 barb and L50 non barb allows you to potentially have a better, and faster Tentacruel. In practice however this may not exist, as our current eye is on Seed 0xDD060370 [{F 27/ 27,29,11,31,6,30 / mild/ >36,3,L50,true}] For L50, which has Poison Barb. | The "potential" timesave here would probably be offset by switching the items anyway (Switching costs 5.4s) Teaching Waterfall to the L40 Tenta instead of L50. This would let you (I think) couple it with Max Repel as soon as you get to R223, instead of teaching it after the mantine trainer. So should save a menu open/close (~2.6s) Tweak difficulty: The tweaks to L40 Tenta aren't trivial, especially the first one. This timing assumes getting all tweaks first try, so if on average you lose say 15s, it isn't included here Spinner manip: Extended spinner manip from L50 solo would work, as would spinner manip from manip for L40. I prefer the former, PoY prefers the latter, so it's kinda come as you are. The money for the Net Balls, if buying 2. Hitting Fantina + Barry 3 battle manip would be extremely hard. Catching the L50 with an L40 will probably allow a wider range for catch manip, as the L50 wouldn't instantly kill the L40 with any attack. So turn 2+ catches on frames to either side of turn 1 catch aim would still be ok without having to reset. The L40 is less likely to kill than the L50, as Wrap doesn't always kill (But WP/PJ do, and L50 has HP) ------------------------- Conclusion: We can say without a doubt, that L40 + L50 is better than L40, as the inferred difference by comparison to L50 is over a minute in favour of L40 + L50 So it comes down to; Can you manip Fantina and Barry 3 with Monferno to be under 2 minutes slower than Tentacruel? Doing some tests, it seems *incredibly* close, if you went really hard. I made some test videos just to show off: Typical Tentacruel fights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnGEHzLSjrM = 176 seconds About average-bad Monferno fights if manipped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbCZ3FaX58E = 298 seconds Difference of 122 seconds. If you went really hard on Monferno manip though, you could definitely get better fights. Maybe in the order of 25 seconds better. However, this doesn't include the save + quit for monferno manip, which according to the corresponding calc, takes about 25 seconds. So if we assume 122 seconds, that would make it a difference of 0 seconds in favour of L40 + L50. A difference so small, that uncalced things, how "good" the battle manip could possibly be, and human error in calcs could definitely tip the scales. So close.